John Hébert: inside the skin of Charles Mingus

Until recently the US double bass-player John Hébert mainly appeared on European stages as a sideman, for example in pianist Fred Hersch’s trio. For Sounds of Love, however, his tribute to the bass legend Charles Mingus, the roles have been reversed. “But once we start playing there is no difference.”

Hébert premiered his Mingus project a year and a half ago in the New York jazz cafe The Stone, where the gifted bassist mainly presented numbers from Changes One (1974), his favourite album by the legendary jazz double-bassist. Along with Fred Hersch on piano, he was joined by the trumpeter-cornetist Taylor Ho Bynum, the alto saxophonist Tim Berne, and the drummer Ches Smith – all musicians he had played with in the past, but who had never shared a stage before. “It was a gathering in the spirit of Mingus,” Hébert told us on the eve of his first European tour as a bandleader. “Mingus had the ability to bring musicians together of whom you would think beforehand: there is neither rhyme nor reason to that. But he succeeded. In fact the musicians he surrounded himself with are as much a part of his compositions as the written music.” The atmosphere at the concert was so good that Hébert not only convoked his musicians for extra sessions in the studio, but for a tour too.

Why did Mingus and, more particularly, his Changes One album make such a big impression on you?
John Hébert: I was crazy about its sound, about the way the tenor saxophonist George Adams and the pianist Don Pullen played. And Mingus himself sounds really clear and lets the band improvise around him. Everyone brings a unique voice to it. His musicians helped him to break new ground.

Was it not hard, then, not to sound like a recreation of that album?
Hébert: Yeah, it was. [Laughs] I didn’t want to just change things for the sake of it. Those numbers are so well structured as compositions that changes could destroy their expressive power. The big difference is that my musicians don’t sound like his.

One of the best-known quotes from Mingus is: “In my music, I’m trying to play the truth of what I am. The reason it’s difficult is because I’m changing all the time.” Do you identify with that?
Hébert: Yes, because artists need change to grow. I don’t play in that many bands myself. I have only performed once in Europe with my own band so far. In this project I am stepping outside my comfort zone – and that’s something every artist must dare to do.

What is the difference, for you, between playing with your own group and with the Fred Hersch Trio?
Hébert: The great thing is that in all the bands I play in as a sideman the musicians have equal status. Fred doesn’t tell me what to do. The most difficult thing is actually the logistical side. But once we start playing there is no difference. My mentor, Andrew Hill, taught me that it’s not about what is on paper; it’s about what comes out of your instrument. These days I write less and less and I rely on my musicians to make the little I write sound different every time. For me, that is the essence of jazz: starting a new conversation, again and again, with the exact same compositions. Miles Davis, Bill Evans, Carla Bley…they too played the same numbers throughout their whole careers, but they never let that stand in the way of their development. On the tour, alongside a number of new compositions in the spirit of Mingus, we will play four original Mingus numbers and each time we will find a different springboard for beginning the improvisation.

John Hébert • 31/3, 20.00, €22, Bozar, rue Ravensteinstraat 23, Brussel/Bruxelles, 02-507.82.00, www.bozar.be